I suppose this blog is political in nature, but I'm not doing that thing where we have a hundred comments between a couple of people who don't see eye to eye and are now arguing relentlessly with each other. I'm going to use my blog to say how I feel, and then everyone is welcome to comment and say how they feel. You're welcome to tell me that you disagree with my opinions, but you're not welcome to tell me I'm wrong or to start fighting. This isn't going to be flame war. I will resort to deleting comments if I must-- something I've never done before on my blog, and really, I don't want to have to start now.
Let's just be adults and accept each other's differences of opinions, and spare me from having to go comment-deleting. Though, honestly, with how many comments I've been getting recently, I'd be surprised to see this be a problem.
So I have a friend, and I was reading her blog, and I thought it was really beautiful. But it reminded me of something. In case this is news to anyone, I'm LDS.
On facebook, I'm friends with a lot of returned missionaries that used to serve in the branch. About 6 months ago, I was looking at one of their profiles, and I saw that his "religious views" were set as agnostic, which was a little strange. Since, you know, he used to be a missionary in the branch. I messaged him to ask when that happened, and he said, "It was months ago. Probably around six months now? It was around the time I also came out as gay to my family...I kinda hit them with everything at once, unfortunately! lol, I know it may be a shock to you, being a member, but I finally had the strength to be 100% true to myself. I've known I was gay since I was a little boy. And I'm totally open to any questions, etc...I'm a very open book."
Now, I was really actually not concerned at all with his sexual orientation. I was honestly more interested in why he decided he was agnostic, so that's where I steered the conversation. I was just curious, I wanted to know why the drastic change. I love the gospel very much, and though I believe it's true, I know that is not what everyone in the world thinks. But if they once believed it and now don't, I want to know why. I want to know what tripped them up. That way I can address it for myself and see what I think about their concerns. I don't go back and try to convince them, "No, man, the gospel is true, see? I solved your problems!" No one likes that kid haha. But it helps to strengthen myself, and I can go back to them and say, "I see what you're saying, but I guess that isn't a concern I have because A B and C," and then they can do what they want with that. They told me what they believe, I told them what I believe, we move on and continue being friends.
I did, however tell him congratulations for coming out and having the strength to be honest with himself and tell his friends and family, and wished him luck on his future endeavors with falling in love and adopting kids. It would be really difficult to hit your friends and family with something that you've been keeping a secret from everyone (and trying to deny yourself), and I am truly happy for him. He's happy now, I can feel it when I talk to him. I was so excited for his happiness, that I told a couple people back here, that way they could be happy for him, too.
Wow. I mostly didn't get the reactions I was anticipating. I've never really considered myself open-minded, but I guess I am? I don't know, it's news to me. Regardless, I told a couple of my friends that he came out, and some of them were happy for him, but many seemed disappointed in him. And I can't understand why, though I've tried to figure it out. The only explanation I can come up with is that they're afraid. They don't understand it, so they fear it, and they turn that fear into anger or annoyance or maybe simply disinterest. I used to be like that. But I'm not like that anymore, and I'm ashamed I ever was. But the fact that I've changed gives me hope that others can, as well.
Anyway, my friend's blog just made me want to share a few of my person beliefs: I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, nor do I believe it's a choice (except for those obnoxious middle schoolers who are like, "I'm bi!" just for the attention). I believe we all deserve the right to be married. I don't believe civil union is the same thing as marriage. I don't believe legalizing gay marriage will force my temples to adopt different standards than they currently have. I believe love is complex and simple at the same time. I believe someday the war on gay marriage will end the same way that the war on interracial marriage did. I believe God's love for you doesn't depend on your sexual orientation nor do I think it depends on your belief in him, side note.
And if you think differently than I do, if your beliefs don't coincide perfectly with mine, then that's fine. We don't all have to be clones of each other. But we do all have to be human beings. And we should all act like human beings and have some respect for each other.
If anyone has questions on what I believe or comments on what I believe, you are all more than welcome to ask/share below. Just remember kids, let's pretend like we like each other.
14 comments:
My goodness, Bridget. You are truly a special, beautiful person. I'm not uncomfortable with this at all!!
You know, lately a whole lot of gay Mormon guys have been reaching out to me. So this has been on my mind a lot! Through my singing, being online, out in the public eye, etc...a lot of Mormon guys who are gay come to know that I was also Mormon, etc...and it's been an interesting experience. I've spent countless hours now, on the phone, talking them through a lot of difficult experiences. Some are very depressed, many don't understand why their parents can't understand them, and it's truly been eye opening and sad for me to experience. The happy part, is helping them cope.
I try and explain to everyone that's reached out, that I fully support their decisions and beliefs. Whether they believe in Mormonism while coming out, or move from it, it doesn't matter to me. I just want them to be happy. What happens with a lot of individuals, is that they just can't accept themselves, have all this guilt, and it doesn't help that so many accuse them of being sinners, of the devil, etc...
You might find it interesting that my brother came out as bisexual recently. My parents said they knew that about him too.
I don't know if you've studied human sexuality at all, but a surefire way to have gay children is to have boy, after boy, after boy...and in our family...it's a five boys in a row. lol
What happens is that the woman's body sees the masculine boy (with its testosterone), as a foreign object...so in every woman's body when they're growing a male, the body will throw estrogen at the child. What happens, when you have boy after boy, is that the woman's body gets better at feminizing. Obviously I'm the eldest, and am very gay hahaha, so we'll see what happens with the other boys. Scientifically it would make sense however, as my Mom was pregnant with me when she was 16-17...imagine how estrogen charged her body was at that time!!
Anyways, there are many people who are born gay, and there are many people who choose to be gay. And there are many people who's hormones change throughout life to cause them to be gay later in life. Again, it all really doesn't matter to me at all. I want people to be happy, and fulfilled.
You know, for me personally I know that much of belief in the gospel was because it was all I knew. I was homeschooled, raised in a town of 1,000, and was really taught to just stay away from my non-Mormon family.
Whether right or wrong, my mission was my downfall. I began to see people for who they truly are. What's inside. The person. Not for their beliefs.
And that, right there, is I think where you're at.
I'm proud of you. You believe so very strong, are happy with what you believe, are on a path to better your life, and not only that, you support others along the way. I mean, that's a fulfilled, wonderful way to live! You don't hate others you don't agree with. You might share what you believe, but you don't try to change in a way that upsets. The Christian could be your friend just as much as the Jew or otherwise. It doesn't matter. It's the person that matters. For that I'm very proud of you, and for being outspoken and sharing what you really feel.
Sorry for the long, long message. It just truly makes me excited to know that members of the church as yourself are out there. It's inspiring. It makes me excited for the future.
I'm under fire constantly a whole hell of a lot from various people, but I'm just so grateful for what I've experienced. And all in all, I'm happy!
And even happier to know I have a friend in you!
Much love,
xoxoxoxo,
Christian
Bridget! I absolutely loved this. I was honestly JUST talking about this today with a friend too! And then another blogger I read wrote about this today too! I love seeing this, that not everyone thinks and feels like it's wrong. I've never seen it as a sin, even through all the different reasonings we hear, I just couldn't buy it. http://thejennie.blogspot.com/2013/02/on-why-im-mormon-ally-for-lgbt-community.html
I don't mean to attack your beliefs, but I do want to understand them better.
First, do you differentiate between homosexual feelings and homosexual acts? So when you say you don't believe homosexuality is a sin, are you referring to the same gender attraction, or acting on that attraction or both?
How do you reconcile your beliefs about homosexuality with the LDS beliefs as outlined in the family proclamation? Specifically that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and the powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
I agree with you 100% that God's love doesn't depend on your sexual orientation. I don't think it depends on anything. He loves us all because we are his children, no matter what we do or think or say. I think that we do make him sad when we make bad choices, but he loves us still and just wants us to be with him forever.
I don't believe same gender attraction is a choice, either. I do believe that you have a choice in who you have a relationship with, though (whether that is a friendship or a marriage or whatever it may be). I don't believe that those who choose to be in homosexual relationships should be treated any differently by our government than those who choose to be in heterosexual relationships.
I disagree about the fact that legalizing gay marriage will not affect the ceremonies we perform in LDS temples. In Mexico, there are no marriages in the temple. I am not entirely sure of the reason, but I know it is political in nature. Those who wish to be sealed in the temple are first wed outside the temple and then sealed as a religious ceremony in the temple. I suspect that legalizing same sex marriage would lead to a similar situation in the US. If we refuse to perform same sex marriages in the temple, I think the only way we could legally do that would be to stop performing any marriages in the temple. I'm not saying that would be a bad thing, just a change brought about by legalizing same sex marriage.
I am glad that your friend is happy. I think that living in a lie and feeling forced to continue that lie would be miserable. I hope he continues to find happiness, regardless of his beliefs.
Christian, I find your comment about your mission being your downfall fascinating. I think it is a shame that you were taught to avoid your "non-mormon" family, and that it took finally getting to know people who were not LDS through serving an LDS mission to realize that most people have that goodness within them naturally. I, personally, believe that goodness to be the light of Christ. I think when we are isolated within a group of people who share common beliefs, we forget that everyone is a child of God, even if we disagree about most everything :)
Of course, others may not agree with me about the source of that goodness, and that's ok. I can respect that :)
Wow! That was so amazing! I loved your view on everything. It made me all teary eyed. I'm a lesbian and haven't come out to my family yet...I've only come out to friends. Because I know my family will react much like Christian's family did. My family is very born again Christians and believe that being gay is a sin and a choice and think that at marriage is wrong and that civil union is the same basic thing. I love my family so much so I'm afraid they'll stop talking to me if they knew. It's really nice to know that there is some people who know its not true...any of it. And that people who are religious accept gay people and their "lifestyle." You have no idea how much I appreciate people like you. Thank you so much!! Much love!! <3
"What happens is that the woman's body sees the masculine boy (with its testosterone), as a foreign object...so in every woman's body when they're growing a male, the body will throw estrogen at the child."
Unless there is some scientific source, I'd have a hard time believing that. If it were true, that would imply it is impossible for someone to be lesbian, since the female body wouldn't start producing extra testosterone to throw at a female fetus.
Either way, it is definitely up to people to live the way they feel is right, as long as they are not infringing on other's choices to live they way they believe is right.
Christian- I'm happy to have a friend in you, too! I also think it's interesting that your mission was your downfall. Irony at its finest. :)
Kylee- that blog was awesome, thanks so much for the link! It's nice to know I'm not alone in my beliefs within the LDS community. I definitely thought I was until a couple days ago.
Carolyn- I don't differentiate between homosexual feelings or actions. I understand why some people think the attraction is ok, but acting on it is not, and I tried believing that for a while, but it just never sat right with me.
As far as the family proclamation goes, I guess the short answer is that I didn't read the family proclamation every week (or even every year, probably) growing up, so it was never a concern I had. Ha.
I just went back to read over it again, though.
To me, I don't think the emphasis of it is on the importance of a male and a female, but on the importance of how to treat the family as a unit. I feel like it wasn't proclaimed to the world to say, "Wife and husband only," but to try to instill the belief that your family needs to be respected as a unit. I honestly think the reason that it specifies man and woman is because it was back in 1995, when the world probably wasn't ready to start accepting other parental possibilities. And I'm not 100% sure we're all ready for it now, but I think some of us are. We're definitely a lot closer than we were just those, what, 8 years ago. Does that make sense?
I had it explained to me that if gay marriage is legalized, it would affect temple marriages legally. And that's actually really interesting about the temple ordinances in Mexico. I didn't know that, but I think it would a good practice to adopt in America, too, once gay marriage is legalized, to separate a legal marriage from a religious ceremony. Besides, it would be kinda cool to be able to pick both a venue to get married in and a temple to get sealed in, I think :)
Ashley- Thank you so much! I hope when you do come out to your family, they'll accept you just the same. From what I've seen of families, when one person makes a decision that the rest of the family doesn't agree with, it usually creates a lot of tension, but it also eventually blows over. So I would hope your family would quickly come to realize that you're still the same person they love.
David- I think you bring up a valid point about the science behind what Christian said. Though I do know from my intro to psych class that with each boy a woman has, the odds of them being gay increase fairly significantly. My textbook didn't give a reason why, it was just stating the fact.
And I really love your last comment. I think it pretty much sums up my thoughts on every issue that exists, especially when it comes to legalities. As long as it doesn't actually harm someone else, it should be legal.
I agree that the legal aspect of marriage and the religious aspect of it should be separated. The issue I have with it is that it's all just different vocabulary for the same thing we have now.... I mean, who is to say that marriage vs civil union is any different from sealing vs marriage? It all comes down to what the person chooses to believe their relationship is. In a sealing, we believe that it is eternal. In many other religions marriages, they believe in till death do us part.
I think that it would have the same effect if the government stopped recognizing marriage at all, but allowed "household partnerships" or whatever to file their taxes and declare that they were operating as a single family unit. It's all just in the terminology. And if I want to call that civil union a "marriage" or a "binding" or a "restructuring" or "life partnership", then I should be entitled to call it that, but the government shouldn't be using different terms.
Either way, that's not really important I suppose. I guess that whether "marriage" remains a legal term or not is beside the point. I do agree that people should be legally free to marry whomever they want. (And I believe that goes for plural marriages between consenting adults as well). Just because I only want 1 husband doesn't mean that everyone else should only be allowed 1 husband. And just because I want to be married to a man doesn't mean that everyone else has to be married to a person of the opposite gender.
I don't know if it's true, though, that the proclamation states "Man" and "Woman" because it was written 18 years ago. I do think that the emphasis of the document is on how families should respect and support one another, but it does clearly state some of the differences between men and women and how those differences function together to create a loving family. That doesn't mean that a family with 2 dads or 2 moms or 1 dad and 4 moms or whatever other combinations we can come up with would necessarily not function and be happy.
I do think that there is a reason, however, that only a man and a woman together can create a child. Just to be clear, I am not saying that a homosexual couple should not be allowed to adopt. There are many children out there who need loving homes where people will take care of them. If that is a single parent home, fine. If it is a homosexual parent home, fine. If it's a polygamist home, fine... But by nature, the only way to create that child in the first place is to have a man and a woman, and I truly do not think that is a coincidence.
I am glad that you are so open minded about people whose lifestyles differ from yours. I have been involved in debates with people who would not trust a gay man to be their son's scout leader, simply because he is gay. Blanket statement and all.... That attitude makes me so sad and angry that there are people who discriminate like that. I do feel like no matter what your religion or sexual attraction or ethnicity or gender, you deserve respect and to be allowed to live your life in whatever way you feel best (again, as long as you are not harming others). That doesn't mean that I will agree with you, but that's ok. Because I know you don't agree with me either, and no matter who we are and what we believe, there is always going to be someone who KNOWS we are wrong. And that's ok, as long as they let me keep on believing. :)
I can definitely see why you believe what you do. And that's honestly enough for me. I just want to know why people have their beliefs/opinions and see that they put some thought behind it. :) I can accept differences as long as the difference isn't ignorance.
I think it's strange, regarding scout leaders, that so many people do not differentiate between homosexuality and pedophilia, yet have no problem with the few female scouting leaders.
Also I wouldn't read any more into the fact that only male and female together can create life, than I would that certain couples are infertile, or ultra-fertile. The problem with claiming divine providence when something works as you think it should, is that you are left to wonder where God is, when things aren't going well.
Right? I really couldn't believe that someone would be so against a male homosexual scout leader, but fine with a female scout leader... what can I say... I have no defense for them because I completely disagree.
And yes, it's true that sometimes the male/female thing doesn't work to create life, either. I think that infertility falls into the same category as any other malady of the body... where is God when a little girl gets cancer? Or when someone is struggling with depression? There are lots of things in this life that are supposed to work, but sometimes don't. It's not fair, and infertility isn't fair. A homosexual couple, however, can never conceive a child together, and that is a fact of nature.
Once again, I have nothing against any homosexual couple getting married or having the same rights as any heterosexual couple. I would like them to be free to do what it is that they feel is good and right, as long as they allow me and everyone else to do the same. I have a lot of respect for homosexual people who are open about their relationships. I think it would be very difficult as there are people who harshly judge and even try to cause them harm. I hope I don't come across as one of those people.
Just as a side note, I have heard some people speculate that homosexuality is evolutionarily present as a species way to control population growth. I have no idea if that is true or not, but I thought it was an interesting idea.
Good post, Bridget.
I also don't buy the in utero estrogen theory. It sounds a little too "folk wisdom" for me, and it doesn't jibe with my experience anyway. Most of the gay guys I know aren't particularly feminine, and most of the lesbians I know aren't particularly masculine. They're just normal.
The idea of differentiating morally between homosexual feelings and homosexual acts never really sat right with me, either. I just imagine what I would feel like if the roles were reversed... if it were deemed sinful for me to be in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. It sounds so pointlessly lonely. I'd have none of that nonsense, so why would I expect anyone else to subject themselves to the equivalent?
On the subject of legalizing gay marriage, a friend of mine suggested that the government should just stop recognizing marriage of any sort. Let the religions make whatever rules they want for who they will marry, and let everyone have civil unions with whoever they want. I found the idea amusing. I don't think it matters, as long as the rules are the same for everyone.
BSA's stand against homosexuality is shameful bigotry. They may as well stop allowing black scout leaders to mingle with white scouts if that's the way they want to run their organization. Or maybe they could just try having "gay" and "straight" drinking fountains.
Responding to a different part of your post...
I left because monotheism doesn't make sense to me. I think the universe is shaped by conflict, not guided by one will.
I also don't believe in either sin or redemption. I acknowledge good and evil, but I think that they are both entirely a matter of perspective. I just believe in consequences. It's up to us to act in ways that shape the world into the kind of place that we want to live, but I don't think that the gods are overly concerned with morality.
I've heard the same population-control theory before. I think it's interesting that homosexuality is reported in tons of different species, and that's probably one of the things that makes me feel like it can't be a sin. It's not some man-made problem; it happens naturally. I don't think that the monkeys or cows or whatever it's observed in are damned, so why should human beings be damned for the same act? Just because we have cognitive reasoning? That doesn't really make sense logically to me.
I've also had a couple of friends who have lived their entire lives being attracted to the opposite sex, then they met this one person that they fell in love with, and that person was the same sex as them. That seems really interesting to me. It kinda implies that gender might not matter as much as we think it would, it's really more about the personality. And given that, I would agree more with Michael that a homosexual couple's lack of ability to have a child is more similar to an infertile couple's lack of inability to have a child. These two people who fell in love-- something that is good-- cannot have a child, whether that be because they fell in love with someone who's the same gender or someone who's barren. Just my personal thoughts.
About boy scouts though, I didn't actually know for years that BSA had issues with gay leaders, but it completely blew my mind when I did find out. It just flat out doesn't make sense. There is no way to present an argument for only straight leaders and sound intelligent at the same time, imo.
And that's interesting, Jason. I like the idea of good and evil depending on perspective. There's a Neil Gaiman quote, which I believe comes from American Gods, that talks about how there was never a true war fought between two sets of people that didn't both believe they were completely in the right, and that's what makes them so dangerous.
I don't remember that quote, although it sounds like something Neil Gaiman would point out. Probably either in American Gods or Good Omens...
Anyway, that's exactly what I was getting at. At some point I realized that on some level everyone thinks they are one of the good guys.
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